[uf-new] hAudio: audio-title/album-title vs. recording/album

Martin McEvoy martin at weborganics.co.uk
Tue Oct 9 13:22:24 PDT 2007

Hello Manu

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 00:03 -0400, Manu Sporny wrote:
> One of the last remaining (and most pedantic) issues for hAudio is the
> naming of the audio-title and album-title properties. This includes the
> following issues (we could close them all if we can finally decide on
> these two names):
> hAudio ISSUE #2: audio-title Property
> http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-issues#audio-title_Property
> hAudio ISSUE #9: album-title Property
> http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-issues#album-title_Property
> hAudio ISSUE #10: Collection Names
> http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-issues#Collection_Names
> The primary issue that I have with audio-title and album-title is that
> they are not orthogonal in the programming language sense:
> http://www.lrdev.com/lr/frequently-asked-questions.html#programming-language-orthogonality
> audio-title is the title of a singular/atomic audio expression. It is a
> rather general term used to identify a singular work.
> album-title is the title of an audio album. It is a specific term used
> to identify a collection of singular works that are in an album/track
> format.
> To add to the complexity of the semantics behind these two terms, they
> not only denote the title, but the type of the hAudio as well.
> The question is: Can we make these terms more orthogonal to publishers.
> Can we choose terms that denote both title and type. The first attempt
> was to name them something like the following:
> recording-title and album-title
> The use of -title seemed a bit redundant, so it was dropped to form:
> recording and album
> Speaking and reading the words in context makes sense:
> hAudio recording
> hAudio album
> whereas speaking and reading what we have currently doesn't really make
> sense:
> hAudio audio-title (specifies the recording title AND the hAudio type)
> hAudio album-title (specifies the album title AND the hAudio type)
> There is also only one example to back-up using the "*-title" pattern in
> Microformats, that being ENTRY-TITLE in hAtom. There are, however, loads
> of examples of taking the other approach, which is using nouns to denote
> "title (type)":
> author (Person), item (Thing), label (Identifier), locality (Place),
> logo (Image), note (Text), photo (Image), summary (Text), region
> (Place), reviewer (Person), sound (Sound), and title (Text) are a
> handful of examples of nouns being used to denote title and type.
> The best that we've been able to do has been RECORDING and ALBUM. Any
> suggestions on addressing these issues?

In Principle I agree with you certainly *album-title* and *audio-title*
don't seem to sit right and are causing some problems as regards naming
and definition, we do have to resolve these issues. Also *track* to me
is causing similar concerns.

+1 for changing album-title to just album because on its own it is both
type and title

My concern is "recording" although the name suggests type and title, I
dont think it is specific enough Its still a very loose term to describe
what actually may be a recording or just the title itself. 

I know I have brought up that we re use ITEM from hReview before on the
list but I guess I didnt explain my reasoning correctly, and I never
really understood why It is that we cant use ITEM, because from what i
can glean from the wiki and how people use it in other formats such as
rss It seems to do exactly what we need.
So please consider again.

so another attempt at simplifying hAudio using my previous example

<div class="haudio">
	<span class="album">Best Before 1984</span>
	By <span class="contributor">Crass</span>
    <div class="item">
        <span class="track">Nagasaki Nightmare</span> 
        <abbr class="duration" title="P268T">4:46</abbr>

    <div class="item">
        <span class="track">Big A, Little A </span> 
        <abbr class="duration" title="P368T"> 6:13</abbr>

If we were to do this in hReview the markup would be..

  <div class="item">
    <span class="fn">Nagasaki Nightmare</span>
    <abbr class="duration" title="P268T">4:46</abbr>

The above markup does seem to make hAudio compact and clean no confusion
about what our hAudio properties mean?




> -- manu
> PS: Keep in mind that RECORDING can be re-used in hVideo.
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