[uf-new] an equation/MathML/TeX microformat?

[Jeff McNeill]

Aloha Paul, et al,

Not quite sure that (alt="") is not its intended or suggested use[1].
It appears that WAG suggests the practices that are being used[2]. For
good measure, there is the MediaWiki page on formula display[3]. For
tooltips, I thought that title="" was the appropriate use and not alt,
but not sure how that works.

I can appreciate the desire to do something more than this, if only
for the use case of "search for all documents that have the KR-20
formula"[4].


[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#alternate-text
[2] http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#text-markup
[3] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Formula
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KR-20

-- 
Sincerely,
Jeff McNeill
http://jeffmcneill.com/


On 10/26/07, Paul Topping <pault at dessci.com> wrote:
> Because that eliminates its originally intended use as "alternative
> text". Screen readers will read this literally, for example, and it will
> show up in tooltips when one hovers over it with the mouse. It is
> exactly this kind of hack that I'm looking to microformats to escape
> from.
>
> Paul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: microformats-new-bounces at microformats.org [mailto:microformats-
> > new-bounces at microformats.org] On Behalf Of Jeff McNeill
> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:15 AM
> > To: For discussion of new microformats.
> > Subject: Re: [uf-new] an equation/MathML/TeX microformat?
> >
> > Aloha,
> >
> > Why not use the alt="" tag for a given rendered image? That is what
> > works on the MimeTeX installations, see e.g.,
> > http://garden9.com/wiki/user-talk:jeffmcneill
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely,
> > Jeff McNeill
> > http://jeffmcneill.com/
> >
> >
> > On 10/26/07, Paul Topping <pault at dessci.com> wrote:
> > > What you suggest is close to what I'm looking for but lacks
> > declaration
> > > of the kind of data the image/linked data bundle represents.
> Software
> > > working with the page would have to fetch the linked-to MathML or
> TeX
> > > and examine it to know it was an equation. As I understand it, what
> a
> > > microformat does is more than just hold the data, it declares a
> > > datatype.
> > >
> > > Also, I want to put the MathML or TeX in the page, not in separate
> > > documents. Typical pages with math in them might have dozens of
> > > equations. Having their representation in separate files is
> > inefficient
> > > but perhaps the biggest problem is that it makes authoring a lot
> more
> > > tedious as lots of small files have to be managed.
> > >
> > > Paul Topping
> > > Design Science, Inc.
> > > www.dessci.com
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: microformats-new-bounces at microformats.org
> > [mailto:microformats-
> > > > new-bounces at microformats.org] On Behalf Of Christopher St John
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 7:34 AM
> > > > To: For discussion of new microformats.
> > > > Subject: Re: [uf-new] an equation/MathML/TeX microformat?
> > > >
> > > > On 10/26/07, Paul Topping <pault at dessci.com> wrote:
> > > > > The problem has nothing to do with improving display. As I said,
> > > that
> > > > > will be via an image such as a GIF or PNG. The microformat is
> > solely
> > > > for
> > > > > the purpose of associating a MathML or TeX representation with
> the
> > > > > image. As with other microformats, normal HTML content is what
> the
> > > > user
> > > > > sees while software sees structured, useful data.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > To restate the hopefully obvious, just in case:
> > > >
> > > > You just want to say "this png image of an equation you're looking
> > at
> > > > is associated with the (MathML | TeX | Etc) ( at the end of this
> > link
> > > |
> > > > embedded
> > > > here in the document)"
> > > >
> > > > How would you do it now, without microformats? Something along the
> > > > lines of:
> > > >
> > > >  <a href="some_mathml.xml"><img src="some_math.png"></a>
> > > >
> > > > with maybe a "class" or "rel" or something in there to tie them
> > > together
> > > > a bit tighter?
> > > >
> > > > Would "the rendering fallback for this MathML is this png image"
> get
> > > you
> > > > the same effect? In which case you're maybe looking at the
> standard
> > > > <object> tag mechanism, but that gets you some (hopefully fading)
> > > > issues on certain browsers. But do the semantics of <object>
> > fallbacks
> > > > match what you want to do?
> > > >
> > > > Have you read through the existing microformats in detail checking
> > to
> > > > see how similiar sorts of problems have been solved before? Not
> sure
> > > if
> > > > there's anything exactly applicable, but it's probably worth a
> shot.
> > > >
> > > > -cks
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Christopher St. John
> > > > http://artofsystems.blogspot.com
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