[uf-new] Album Vs audio-title (was hAudio ITEM debate proposal #3)

[Martin McEvoy]

Hello Manu

Manu Sporny wrote:
> Martin McEvoy wrote:
>   
>> Scott Has informed me that item and fn cant share the same class so
>>
>> more Tracks
>>
>> <p class="haudio"> 
>> I like the songs <span class="item"><span class="fn">Everything in Its
>> Right Place</span></span> and <span class="item"><span class="fn">The
>> National Anthem </span></span> 
>> from the <span class="audio-title">Kid A</span> album
>> </p> 
>>
>> A podcast,
>>
>> <div class="haudio">
>>   <h1 class="audio title">My Latest Episode</h1>
>> <p>In four Parts</p>
>> <ol>
>> <li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 1</span>, duration <span
>> class="duration">10:15</span></li>
>> <li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 2</span>, duration <span
>> class="duration">08:15</span></li>
>> <li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 3</span>, duration <span
>> class="duration">09:05</span></li>
>> <li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 4</span>, duration <span
>> class="duration">12:33</span></li>
>> </ol>
>> </div>
>>     
>
> Your podcast example has exactly the same semantics associated with it
> as your album example. Take a closer look at the structure of both, they
> are:
>
> haudio
>    item
>       fn
>    item
>       fn
>    audio-title
>
> haudio
>    audio-title
>    item
>       fn
>       duration
>    item
>       fn
>       duration
>    item
>       fn
>       duration
>    item
>       fn
>       duration
>
> Looking at the structure, not the data. How can you say one is an album
> and the other is a podcast? There is no way to deduce this information
> from the mark-up. Have I understood your approach correctly?
>   
Ahh! I think I know where our misunderstanding is.

I think it has something to do with what our basic concept of an Album 
is and how type or subtypes are marked up implicitly, by implicit I mean 
only suggesting or giving the general idea that what we are talking 
about is a hAudio album.

take this example using the current proposed method

<div class="haudio">
  <h1 class="fn album">My Latest Episode</h1>
<p>In four Parts</p>
<ol>
<li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 1</span>, duration <span
class="duration">10:15</span></li>
<li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 2</span>, duration <span
class="duration">08:15</span></li>
<li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 3</span>, duration <span
class="duration">09:05</span></li>
<li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 4</span>, duration <span
class="duration">12:33</span></li>
</ol>
</div>

you are explicitly requiring me to mark up my podcast as an album? when in fact it is not!

You are trying to set the type of hAudio (The Object) as an Album but it just doesn't seem to work, its too restrictive you are requiring every author to mark up their haudio explicitly as an Album? which in the above example is not correct.

The reality is that it is the blogging community that is likely to adopt hAudio first before any corporate adoption, from a business perspective it would cost too much for say Apple iTunes (and many other major music download stores) to test and deploy hAudio on its music stores, I has to be tested first, In the case of Microformats Community its usually by publishers of Blogs that do the testing first, So to simply ignore the early adopters of hAudio seems like folly.

How about giving the publisher or author the option to describe what the contents of haudio are?

an Idea something to talk about Not a proposal:

<div class="haudio">
  <h1 class="type" title="podcast">
	<span class="fn">My Latest Episode</span>
  </h1>
<p>In four Parts</p>
<ol>
<li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 1</span>, duration <span
class="duration">10:15</span></li>
<li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 2</span>, duration <span
class="duration">08:15</span></li>
<li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 3</span>, duration <span
class="duration">09:05</span></li>
<li class="item"><span class="fn">Part 4</span>, duration <span
class="duration">12:33</span></li>
</ol>
</div>

A relatively new concept I know, @title represents the authors interpretation of what the hAudio object may be about, not a set type a free form Microformat? the only thing I do not know is if this is possible?, or if the semantics are correct they seem to be, but the only example of type being set by @title is in hReview but is done with the abbr design pattern...

...
<abbr class="type" title="business">
  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cafe" rel="tag">cafe</a></abbr> 
... 

http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview#Multidimensional_Restaurant_Review

which seems a bit like an abuse of the abbr design pattern to me ? is 
cafe an abbreviation of  buisness maybe I dont know?


Thoughts ?

Thanks

Martin McEvoy
Adwords Media
http://adwords-media.co.uk/

> -- manu
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