[uf-new] Re: Comment Questions

Martin McEvoy martin at weborganics.co.uk
Sun Nov 16 08:46:29 PST 2008

Martin McEvoy wrote:
> David Janes wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Toby A Inkster 
>> <mail at tobyinkster.co.uk> wrote:
>>> #3, I think, David first brought to this list, with class="hfeed 
>>> comments",
>>> though I had previously proposed class="hfeed replies" to Sarven 
>>> off-list a
>>> month or two ago. Advantages are that although an explicit 
>>> connection is
>>> given by placing the feed of replies within the thing being 
>>> commented on, it
>>> requires no visible link at the comment level, and no fragment 
>>> identifiers
>>> are required for each comment. This is a big advantage as it closely 
>>> matches
>>> current publishing patterns. The disadvantages though are that it only
>>> allows a comment to be in reply to one particular thing; and it forces
>>> publishers of threaded messages to use one particular layout (the 
>>> threaded
>>> one) rather than, say, a purely chronological order as the latter 
>>> would lose
>>> connections between comments. (The threaded layout is of course the 
>>> most
>>> common in practice, but in general microformats have historically 
>>> steered
>>> away from enforcing any particular layout.)
>> "hfeed comments" has been kicking around since February, off list, and
>> I got the photos to prove it ;-)
>> I'm not sure why you think #3 forces a particular layout. Let me state
>> more formally:
>> * if Entry "B" is in an Entry Comments element of Entry "A", then
>> Entry "B" is a comment on Entry "A"
>> * an Entry Comments element is identified by using both class names
>> "hfeed comments"
>> That's it: you've got 100% coverage of all examples with no
>> presentation change and no required or implied changes to format
>> needed.
> David, you are asserting that all comments are grouped in some way, 
> for this you should use xoxo this will give you the implied structure 
> of a comment list, a fair amount of the examples do imply structure 
> and grouping in this way by using <ul>, <ol> <dl>,
> "hfeed comments" is simply wrong because you are implying that "hfeed" 
> is required? if that's not true you are saying you can just use 
> "comments" does this mean that hfeed is Implied? if that's the case 
> then what is the point of using "hfeed" at all? , lastly all of this 
> doesn't address a comment, it only addresses the grouping of comments 
> not the comment this discussion does not go there (remember?).
> as for all the assertions you, and others are making "that a comment 
> should be marked up in hatom" is also wrong because certain basic 
> requirements of hAtom do not exist in a comment, an entry-title and a 
> bookmarkable point (only 40% have a permalink), comments made on other 
> things (not blogs) very rarely have a permalink also saying if an 
> entry-title is not present "make something up" is false semantics, you 
> are saying that something exists when it quite clearly doesn't
> I tried to get the conversation about a comment going again because it 
> really is a simple format to build and couldn't understand why a 
> comment format hasn't been addressed yet, now I know why, because some 
> people don't understand what the problem is and have preconceptions of 
> how this should be solved, which should be the simplest way, which is 
> not dumping the whole hAtom format on it, what If I don't want to use 
> hAtom to mark up a comment? I haven't got much choice have I?
Another Point David...

Please change your selected examples[1] so that they only include a 
single comment ie:

    <li class="" id="comment-3979">
        <cite><a href='...' rel='external nofollow'>chase</a></cite> Says:
        <br />
        <small class="commentmetadata">
            <a href="#comment-3979" title="">October 21st, 2006 at 5:25 pm</a>
        <p>hurry, hurry, hurry …</p>

This will keep tis discussion on track and NOT get distracted with 
grouping comments (that should be up to the author dont you think?)

[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-examples#Selected_Examples


Martin McEvoy


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