Microformat Issues

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<h1> Microformat Issues </h1>
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<entry-title> Microformat Issues </entry-title>
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These are externally raised issues about microformats in general (these issues MUST apply to more than one microformat, which MUST be explicitly listed, otherwise the issue should be raised on the format specific issues page) with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are REJECTED for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec. Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — [http://tantek.com/log/ Tantek]
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These are externally raised issues about microformats in general.
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As this is a general microformats issues page, please only note ''concrete'' real world issues. Theoretical issues will be deleted, as will any issues raised that do not contain documentation of specific real-world examples that use real-world microformats (not just brainstorms).
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Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in one or more specifications or microformats in general. Some issues may be REJECTED for a variety of brief reasons, and others contain longer discussions.  
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__TOC__
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As this is a general microformats issues page, please only note ''concrete'' real world issues.  Theoretical issues may be deleted, as will any issues raised that do not contain documentation of specific real-world examples that use real-world microformats (not just brainstorms).
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== Issues ==
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Please be sure that an issue applies to more than one microformat or pattern, otherwise the issue should be raised on the format/pattern specific issues page. Please check [[issues-resolved]] and [[issues-closed]] to first see if your issue has a resolution.
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=== Format Specific Issues ===
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Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — [http://tantek.com/log/ Tantek]
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Please raise format specific issues on the respective page:
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== Closed Issues ==
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* [[hcard-issues]]
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Resolved issues that have no further actions to take.
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* [[hcalendar-issues]]
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* See [[issues-closed]]
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* [[hreview-issues]]
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* etc.
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=== IP Issues ===
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== Resolved Issues ==
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* 2006-12-08 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]].
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Resolved issues that have outstanding [[to-do]] items.
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*# As evidenced in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-December/007531.html discussion of an emailed response from eBay], the current position on the IP rights relating to microformats is unclear, or at least not clearly expressed. It seems to me that there should be an unambiguous statement of the current position, either for each individual format, or collectively, on a page to which people with concerns may be directed.
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* See [[issues-resolved]]
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*#* ACCEPTED.  A clearer statement of both copyright and patents both in specific specs and in general would be a good thing. In general, the end result that our current copyright/patent statements seek is Creative Commons, W3C, and IETF compatibility in terms of both copyrights, and royalty free patent policies. I [[to-do#Tantek|will work]] on this [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 11:58, 9 Dec 2006 (PST)
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*#** {{OpenIssue}} This appears to be unresolved; and in the light of, for example, [[hCard#Copyright the hCard 'spec']], the statement in the FAQ that "[http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Q:_Who_controls_microformats.3F Microformats are open standards licensed under Creative Commons Attribution]" to be, at best, erroneous and misleading. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 11:04, 10 Mar 2007 (PST)
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*#**Also [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Attribution&curid=7391090&diff=117538680&oldid=117536621 causing concern here]. '''Prompt resolution would be advisable''' [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 09:04, 24 Mar 2007 (PDT)
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*#*** First, [[citation]] is not ready for use in Wikipedia anyway.  Second, what is unclear about the Creative Commons/W3C/IETF license and patent statements?  This appears to be a theoretical issue / nitpick.  Yes, things can be made clearer, but "erroneous" and "misleading" are inaccurate labels.
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*#*** This is not a citation issue. For example, [[hcard#Copyright|hCard's current copyright statement]] is not compatible with the Creative Commons license:<br><blockquote>{{MicroFormatCopyrightStatement2004}}</blockquote><br>If you look at the wikicode, this is actually the "MicroFormatCopyrightStatement2004" default microformat copyright.--[[User:JoeAndrieu|JoeAndrieu]] 15:09, 24 Mar 2007 (PDT)
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* Further to the above (but out-dented for clarity), [[hresume|hResume]] cedes copyright to "the authors": "This specification is (C) 2006 by the authors"; and names just one author; Ryan King. What legal standing does the "the authors (sic) intend to submit..." clause have? What exists, to reassure someone (or some mega corporation's lawyers) contemplating or already using hResume that they won't be invoiced by Mr King? Why aren't the other people who contributed to that spec jointly credited with its copyright? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 17:34, 24 Mar 2007 (PDT)
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== Issues ==
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=== opened 2006 ===
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*Also, there appears to be nothing on [[buttons]] to say that they're freely licensed, or public-domain. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 03:01, 25 Mar 2007 (PDT)
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<div class="hentry" id="hcard-vs-vcard-name">
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{{OpenIssue}}
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<span class="entry-summary author vcard">
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<span class="published">2006-05-11</span>
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[http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-faq&diff=6324&oldid=6323 FAQ by <span class="fn">Brian Suda</span>], expanded/reraised by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
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</span>
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<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
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* <strong class="entry-title">why does hCard use "vcard" as the root class or hCalendar use "vevent"?</strong>
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** Originally partly [[hcard-faq#Why_does_hCard_use_vcard_as_the_root_class_name|an FAQ written by Brian Suda]], this slight inconsistency between the name of the format and the name of the root class name consistently causes confusion in a large percentage of newcomers to microformats. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
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*** Looks like a typo (just one letter difference)
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*** Cognitive dissonance: saying "use hCard" but implying use "vcard" class name, or the implication causing one to just say "use vcard", e.g. [https://twitter.com/cssquirrel/status/129602573635289088 Kyle Weems]: <blockquote>I always end up saying "vcard" instead of "hcard" because I never write "hcard" in the code. It's weird having "two" formats that are 1:1.</blockquote>
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*** Ambiguity in discussions, e.g. put "vcard" in your HTML - meaning, class name, or a link to a .vcf file?
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*** Cognitive load: extra bit of information to remember when marking up a microformat
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*** in contrast to [[hReview]], [[hListing]], [[hRecipe]], etc. which all have root class name same as name of microformat (albeit lowercased, however some publishers have used the 2nd-letter-uppercase version as the root class name, e.g. class="hReview", enough for Google's rich snippet parsers to liberally accept it, so those could be improved as well.).
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** Though in microformats we believe very strongly in the [[principle]] of [[reuse]], we have to admit that in this case experience/evidence has shown that this may be a case where we re-used something too far beyond it's original meaning. Or perhaps we errantly called two slightly different things by the same name.
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*** '''ACCEPTED PROPOSED RESOLUTION.''' In [[microformats-2]], all vocabularies are named the same as their root class names, e.g. "h-card", "h-event", "h-entry" etc. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
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</div>
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</div>
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=== Legal Entity Issues ===
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=== opened 2010 ===
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2007-03-24 raised by [[User:JoeAndrieu|Joe Andrieu]], clarified by [[User:Rohit|Rohit Khare]] on 2007-03-27.
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Issues opened/raised in 2010.
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# What is the legal entity responsible for operating microformats.org?
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#* [[User:Rohit|Rohit Khare]] originally registered the microformats.com and .org domain names on 2005-01-25 and [http://commerce.net| CommerceNet, LLC], a non-profit 'think tank' with a long history as a neutral sponsor for developing standards for Internet commerce (often, in conjunction with other formal standards bodies). CommerceNet currently underwrites the server hosting costs and, in the past, has co-ordinated donations with other sponsors for events such as the [http://microformats.org/blog/2006/06/16/microformatsorg-anniversary-party/|first anniversary party], the [http://wiki.commerce.net/wiki/ZCommerceWS#Microformats workshop] where the site was launched, and promotional items.
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# What is the legal entity responsible for the intellectual property on microformats.org? 
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#* The current [[Template:MicroFormatCopyrightStatement|microformats copyright statement]] recognizes that IP is originally vested in the author(s), who are then expected to share those rights with the community by permitting their redistribution on microformats.org's wiki, blog, and mailing list archives. The additional distinction of becoming a specification may come with additional obligations to redistribute IP, such as a formal Creative Commons copyright license and a royalty-free patent license. The community is currently encouraging contibutors to [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-July/010221.html voluntarily adopt a public domain release].
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#* Note that CommerceNet, LLC does ''not'' exercise any editorial control over the content of the site, mailing list, specifications, or the process, nor does it accept funds on behalf of microformats.org (see the [[Microformats:General_disclaimer|disclaimer]]). Conversely, the [[faq#Q:_Who_controls_microformats.3F|Admins]] do not have any independent legal identity at present, such as a partnership, foundation, or corporation. Please refer any legal questions or concerns directly to [mailto:rohit@khare.org Rohit Khare] before raising them as a matter of public record, as discussed on the mailing list [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-November/007086.html].
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=== Governance Issues ===
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<div class="hentry" id="class-collisions">
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:See: [[governance-issues]]
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{{OpenIssue}}
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<span class="entry-summary author vcard">
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<span class="published">2010-08-24</span>
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[http://html5doctor.com/microformats/#comment-10241 raised by <span class="fn">Wim</span>], expanded by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
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</span>
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<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
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* <strong class="entry-title">microformats classes like 'url' or 'region' already in use</strong>. "Using class for the microformat markup is clearly a problem, in part because it’s so easy to overlap with other markup. Authors use classes like “url” or “region” all the time, and might not be aware of the hCard format. All sorts of markup might look like a microformat."
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** There has also been an anecdotal report of a design firm who was not (yet) familiar with microformats seeing the "extra" classes that "that don't seem to be used" (without corresponding CSS rules) and asking if they "can remove them". By making microformats class names different from generic words, authors unfamiliar with microformats may at least notice such distinction and infer special functionality accordingly. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
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** ACCEPTED. Pretty sure this was raised before, in IRC/lists elsewhere, but this URL was the earliest one I could find to capture it. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
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** 2011-10-26 [https://twitter.com/richardtvaughan/status/129235473414631424 confirmed by Richard Vaughan]:
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*** "... Microformats can screw with existing CSS rules. ..."
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** [https://twitter.com/richardtvaughan/status/129236380873261057 and follow-up same day also]:
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*** "microformats are the easiest as it's just CSS classes, but may be a pain to implement if those class names are already used."
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** See also '''Beware of microformats/CSS naming collisions''' section in http://knol.google.com/k/google-rich-snippets-tips-and-tricks (no edit history, date unknown, found 2011-350)
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** '''ACCEPTED. PROPOSED RESOLUTION.''' We are fixing this with [[microformats-2]], all property names have prefixes to avoid such collisions. E.g. 'url' becomes 'u-url' and 'region' becomes 'p-region'. See [[microformats-2#h-card|microformats 2: h-card properties]] for more. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
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</div>
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</div>
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===Miscellaneous issues===
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=== opened 2011 ===
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* {{OpenIssue}} 2006-10-17 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] on [[wiki-feedback]]; moved here 2007-03-10.
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Issues opened/raised in 2011.
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*#  What is currently described as a "specification" on [[hCard]] and [[hCalendar]] is no such thing.
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*#  Andy, what would it take to turn it into a "specification"?--[[User:JoeAndrieu|JoeAndrieu]] 15:13, 24 Mar 2007 (PDT)
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=== New Issues ===
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* ...
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* {{OpenIssue}} 2007-04-01 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]].
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=== Template ===
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*# Shouldn't microformats be recognised on <code>ID</code> as well as <code>class</code>? In other words, if I know I'm gong to have only one review or only one location, or whatever, on a page, then <code>"id=hReview"</code>, <code>id="geo"</code> etc. are semantically valid and appropriate. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 11:32, 1 Apr 2007 (PDT)
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{{issues-format}}
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* ...
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=== Format Specific Issues ===
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Please raise format specific issues on their respective page(s):
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== Template ==
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* [[hatom-issues]]
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* [[hcard-issues]]
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** [[representative-hcard-issues]]
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* [[hcalendar-issues]]
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* [[hlisting-issues]]
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* [[hresume-issues]]
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* [[hreview-issues]]
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* [[rel-values-issues]]
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** [[rel-home-issues]]
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** [[rel-license-issues]]
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* [[vote-links-issues]]
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* [[xfn-issues]]
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* [[xfolk-issues]]
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* [[xmdp-issues]]
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* [[xoxo-issues]]
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** [[xoxo-opml-issues]]
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Issues regarding microformats in progress (brainstorms etc.) are documented on their respective pages.
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=== Pattern Specific Issues ===
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Please raise pattern specific issues on the respective page:
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*[[abbr-design-pattern-issues]]
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** [[accessibility-issues#abbr-design-pattern]].
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*[[include-pattern-issues]]
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* etc.
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Please use this format (copy and paste this to the end of the list to add your issues):
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=== Domain Specific Issues ===
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* {{OpenIssue}} YYYY-MM-DD raised by [http://yourhomepage.example.com YOURNAME].
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*[[accessibility-issues]]
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*# ''Issue 1: Here is the first issue I have.''
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*[[code-issues]]
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*# ''Issue 2: Here is the second issue I have.''
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*[[external-issues]]
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*[[tests-issues]]
==See also==
==See also==

Current revision


These are externally raised issues about microformats in general.

Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in one or more specifications or microformats in general. Some issues may be REJECTED for a variety of brief reasons, and others contain longer discussions.

As this is a general microformats issues page, please only note concrete real world issues. Theoretical issues may be deleted, as will any issues raised that do not contain documentation of specific real-world examples that use real-world microformats (not just brainstorms).

Please be sure that an issue applies to more than one microformat or pattern, otherwise the issue should be raised on the format/pattern specific issues page. Please check issues-resolved and issues-closed to first see if your issue has a resolution.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — Tantek

Contents

Closed Issues

Resolved issues that have no further actions to take.

Resolved Issues

Resolved issues that have outstanding to-do items.

Issues

opened 2006

open issue! 2006-05-11 FAQ by Brian Suda, expanded/reraised by Tantek

  • why does hCard use "vcard" as the root class or hCalendar use "vevent"?
    • Originally partly an FAQ written by Brian Suda, this slight inconsistency between the name of the format and the name of the root class name consistently causes confusion in a large percentage of newcomers to microformats. - Tantek
      • Looks like a typo (just one letter difference)
      • Cognitive dissonance: saying "use hCard" but implying use "vcard" class name, or the implication causing one to just say "use vcard", e.g. Kyle Weems:
        I always end up saying "vcard" instead of "hcard" because I never write "hcard" in the code. It's weird having "two" formats that are 1:1.
      • Ambiguity in discussions, e.g. put "vcard" in your HTML - meaning, class name, or a link to a .vcf file?
      • Cognitive load: extra bit of information to remember when marking up a microformat
      • in contrast to hReview, hListing, hRecipe, etc. which all have root class name same as name of microformat (albeit lowercased, however some publishers have used the 2nd-letter-uppercase version as the root class name, e.g. class="hReview", enough for Google's rich snippet parsers to liberally accept it, so those could be improved as well.).
    • Though in microformats we believe very strongly in the principle of reuse, we have to admit that in this case experience/evidence has shown that this may be a case where we re-used something too far beyond it's original meaning. Or perhaps we errantly called two slightly different things by the same name.
      • ACCEPTED PROPOSED RESOLUTION. In microformats-2, all vocabularies are named the same as their root class names, e.g. "h-card", "h-event", "h-entry" etc. - Tantek

opened 2010

Issues opened/raised in 2010.

open issue! 2010-08-24 raised by Wim, expanded by Tantek

  • microformats classes like 'url' or 'region' already in use. "Using class for the microformat markup is clearly a problem, in part because it’s so easy to overlap with other markup. Authors use classes like “url” or “region” all the time, and might not be aware of the hCard format. All sorts of markup might look like a microformat."
    • There has also been an anecdotal report of a design firm who was not (yet) familiar with microformats seeing the "extra" classes that "that don't seem to be used" (without corresponding CSS rules) and asking if they "can remove them". By making microformats class names different from generic words, authors unfamiliar with microformats may at least notice such distinction and infer special functionality accordingly. - Tantek
    • ACCEPTED. Pretty sure this was raised before, in IRC/lists elsewhere, but this URL was the earliest one I could find to capture it. - Tantek
    • 2011-10-26 confirmed by Richard Vaughan:
      • "... Microformats can screw with existing CSS rules. ..."
    • and follow-up same day also:
      • "microformats are the easiest as it's just CSS classes, but may be a pain to implement if those class names are already used."
    • See also Beware of microformats/CSS naming collisions section in http://knol.google.com/k/google-rich-snippets-tips-and-tricks (no edit history, date unknown, found 2011-350)
    • ACCEPTED. PROPOSED RESOLUTION. We are fixing this with microformats-2, all property names have prefixes to avoid such collisions. E.g. 'url' becomes 'u-url' and 'region' becomes 'p-region'. See microformats 2: h-card properties for more. - Tantek

opened 2011

Issues opened/raised in 2011.

Template

Consider using this format (copy and paste this to the end of the list to add your issues; replace ~~~ with an external link if preferred) to report issues or feedback, so that issues can show up in hAtom subscriptions of this issues page. If open issues lack this markup, please add it.

Please post one issue per entry, to make them easier to manage. Avoid combining multiple issues into single reports, as this can confuse or muddle feedback, and puts a burden of separating the discrete issues onto someone else who 1. may not have the time, and 2. may not understand the issue in the same way as the original reporter.

<div class="hentry">
{{OpenIssue}} 
<span class="entry-summary author vcard">
 <span class="published">2011-MM-DD</span> 
 raised by <span class="fn">~~~</span>
</span>
<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
* <strong class="entry-title">«Short title of issue»</strong>. «Description of Issue»
** Follow-up comment #1
** Follow-up comment #2
</div>
</div>

Format Specific Issues

Please raise format specific issues on their respective page(s):

Issues regarding microformats in progress (brainstorms etc.) are documented on their respective pages.

Pattern Specific Issues

Please raise pattern specific issues on the respective page:

Domain Specific Issues

See also

Microformat Issues was last modified: Thursday, May 2nd, 2013

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