[microformats-discuss] Fwd: a proposal for a microformat for weblog
entries
Tantek Ç elik
tantek at cs.stanford.edu
Thu Aug 11 09:49:03 PDT 2005
Forwarding to microformats-discuss.
David, I see that you joined the microformats-discuss list -- your future
posts will make it through directly.
One small request: please use plain text email when sending to
microformats-discuss.
Thanks!
Tantek
On 8/11/05 5:13 AM, "David Janes -- BlogMatrix" <davidjanes at blogmatrix.com>
wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> This is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for :-) I'm banging my
> head for missing those two links of the Wiki. I'll actually see if I can
> get my Greasemonkey demo going today or tomorrow so it's a little more
> obvious in a real world situation what I'm on about.
>
> Here's a little description I wrote earlier of what the Greasemonkey
> script is intended to do:
> Greasemonkey: I'm hoping to write ... time permitting ... a general
> microformat indentifier (especially for xFolk, hcard, hcal and something
> I'm working on tentatively titled xEntry) script. This would
> transparently float little boxes over the content IDing the
> microcontent. When the user presses CTRL-SHIFT-M, this boxes would
> become solid. Mousing over would drop down little menus with links for
> appropriate actions on the microcontent. This was inspired by the
> magicline script (http://diveintomark.org/projects/greasemonkey/).
>
> Regards, etc...
> David
> http://www.blogmatrix.com
>
> Tantek Çelik wrote:
>
>> On 8/11/05 4:50 AM, "David Janes -- BlogMatrix" <davidjanes at blogmatrix.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Tantek,
>>>
>>> 1. I am trying to use upon myself, plus I have a thousand+ active blogs
>>> upon which I can fairly test theories and iterations upon with
>>> disrupting normal day to day operations
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Excellent.
>>
>> Let me ask this then, have you tried first adopting the already established
>> microformats within your blog to gain a better understanding of what
>> additional pieces you need?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> 2. There are a number of intended uses, the first coming to mind is
>>> something like reblg (http://reblg.com/developer), which is why included
>>> the proponents of that format in the mailout (to find out if I'm
>>> covering too much ground that they've done, are these compatible, does
>>> this make rebloging easier). More generally, I'm working on a
>>> greasemonkey project that will tie the identification of microformats
>>> (including this one) into a series of URI actions, such as reblogging,
>>> sending the link to something like del.ico.us, etc..
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Then it sounds like at least the *concepts* are worthy of discussing on the
>> microformats-discuss list (cc'd).
>>
>> Like I said, this is something that *many* folks have worked on already, so
>> I suggest doing some additional background research.
>>
>> For example, there have been some thoughts written here:
>>
>> http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-post-formats
>> http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-description-format
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm not planning to waste anyone's time on this, nor am I asking for
>>> anyone's upfront commitments, blood oaths, or whatever: I'm entirely
>>> content to play with this ideas
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Playing with ideas is strongly encouraged. It's typically much more
>> productive than simply talking about them. So you're on the right track
>> there.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am asking for feedback, comments, pointers to previous or
>>> ongoing work in this area and giving a heads up to people that may be
>>> interested in case this stuff actually works out or is treading on
>>> anyone's toes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Excellent. I think you will certainly get it. There's definitely at least
>> a few other people on the microformats-discuss list who are interested in
>> researching/pursuing a microformat for blog entries.
>>
>> So far, everyone who is interested is trying out different variations on
>> their own blogs and learning from the experience.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>>
>> Tantek
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Tantek Çelik wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> Lots of folks have tried to come up with a microformat for weblog entries.
>>>>
>>>> In short, working on this kind of standard is a waste of time.
>>>>
>>>> UNLESS
>>>>
>>>> 1. You first try using it yourself, and seeing how it works on your own
>>>> blog.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Answer the question of why?
>>>>
>>>> What real-world problem is being solved with this?
>>>>
>>>> Making analysis easier is irrelevant to most people, as is making things
>>>> easier for tools. If there's no benefit for users, there's no reason to
>>>> pursue.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry to make this sound so harsh, but it is important here to
>>>> establish
>>>> the priorities of solving *real* problems rather than theoretical problems,
>>>> of first doing *research*, and *documenting* it, instead of starting with a
>>>> format proposal.
>>>>
>>>> http://microformats.org/wiki/process
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Tantek
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/11/05 3:58 AM, "David Janes -- BlogMatrix" <davidjanes at blogmatrix.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm contacting you folk because you're all writing about microformats
>>>>> and I'd like your opinion on this idea. A missing piece from the whole
>>>>> microformats world is a microformat for weblog entries, which I'll call
>>>>> "xEntry" for now. There are a number of benefits to such a format:
>>>>> - they're easy to produce (it's just template work)
>>>>> - they will make analysis of weblog content easier
>>>>> - they will make "reblogging" tools easier to do
>>>>> - probably more...
>>>>>
>>>>> The format itself would be quite simple. I've just used Atom
>>>>> (http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/) as a reasonable
>>>>> definition for what should be in this microcontent spec, and worked from
>>>>> there. Here's the basic elements:
>>>>>
>>>>> xentry
>>>>> id
>>>>> author
>>>>> published
>>>>> title
>>>>> content
>>>>>
>>>>> Notes: "xentry" could become "aentry" to more suggest Atom, but I like
>>>>> the way this reminisent of xFolk (http://microformats.org/wiki/xfolk).
>>>>> There's an example of the markup after my signature below.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your thoughts? If people think this is a good idea, I can start fleshing
>>>>> this out more. There a little conflict or overlap with the reblg people,
>>>>> but I think that can be worked out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, etc...
>>>>> David Janes
>>>>> Founder, BlogMatrix
>>>>> http://www.blogmatrix.com
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original weblog article:
>>>>>
>>>>> <div class="post">
>>>>> <h3 class="storytitle" id="post-2960">
>>>>> <a href="http://dannyayers.com/archives/2005/08/03/httptracer/"
>>>>> rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: HTTPTracer">HTTPTracer</a>
>>>>> </h3>
>>>>>
>>>>> <div class="storycontent">
>>>>> <p>bla bla bla</p>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>> <div class="metabits">
>>>>> <div class="keywords">
>>>>> <a
>>>>> href="http://dannyayers.com/misc/about/biog.htm">Danny</a>@13:45 |
>>>>> <a href="http://dannyayers.com/..." title="View ..."
>>>>> rel="category tag">Programming</a>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>>
>>>>> <div class="feedback">
>>>>> <a
>>>>> href="http://dannyayers.com/archives/2005/08/03/httptracer/#comments">Comm
>>>>> en
>>>>> ts
>>>>> (0)</a>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>>
>>>>> - With xEntry markup (I've made all the xEntry markup uppercase for
>>>>> _visibility purposes only_; note the optional use of <abbr> to provide
>>>>> deeper data):
>>>>>
>>>>> <div class="XENTRY post">
>>>>> <h3 class="storytitle" id="post-2960">
>>>>> <a href="http://dannyayers.com/archives/2005/08/03/httptracer/"
>>>>> class="TITLE ID" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link:
>>>>> HTTPTracer">HTTPTracer</a>
>>>>> </h3>
>>>>>
>>>>> <div class="CONTENT storycontent">
>>>>> <p>bla bla bla</p>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>> <div class="metabits">
>>>>> <div class="keywords">
>>>>> <a href="http://dannyayers.com/misc/about/biog.htm"><abbr
>>>>> class="AUTHOR" title="Danny Ayers">Danny</abbr></a>@<abbr
>>>>> class="PUBLISHED" title="2005-08-03T11:45:02Z">13:45</abbr> |
>>>>> <a href="http://dannyayers.com/..." title="View ..."
>>>>> rel="category tag">Programming</a>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>>
>>>>> <div class="feedback">
>>>>> <a
>>>>> href="http://dannyayers.com/archives/2005/08/03/httptracer/#comments">Comm
>>>>> en
>>>>> ts
>>>>> (0)</a>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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