[uf-dev] Re: [uf-discuss] include pattern

Tantek Ç elik tantek at cs.stanford.edu
Wed Jun 7 07:43:33 PDT 2006

As the author of the include-pattern spec, I did always intend for it to be
referenced elements and their children, as it is in the spec.  This decision
was based on experience marking up *real examples* with it. (an excellent
test for data format decisions in general).

There is a proposal to restrict the include pattern to *only* children of
the referenced element.

Due to the extra element this will introduce in common cases (of sharing
only an fn or item fn for hReview, hResume), I am opposed to this change.

I understand that this will be more work for parsers, and that the current
X2V prototype of the include-pattern only includes children of the
referenced element.  I think we need more implementation experience.

(cross-posting to microformats-dev)

Those of you who have written parsers out there (Scott Reynen, Assaf Arkin,
Tails/Flocktails folks, Reevoo, etc.), if you could please take a look at
modifying your code to implement object-include support for the microformats
you parse (e.g. hCard, hCalendar, hReview), it would be good to know if the
adding support for the include-pattern is:

1. easy
2. possible, but a bit of work
3. possible, but challenging/hard
4. impossible

Now that I'm one of the folks who has written some microformats parsing code
as well (for Microformats Search), I'm also going to be investigating this.

Publishers need this functionality yesterday.  For example, both Judy's Book
and Cork'd, which already support hReview, need this functionality (and may
even be implementing the markup as specified as we speak).

So let's see if we can interoperably implement this.



On 6/6/06 5:11 PM, "Ryan King" <ryan at technorati.com> wrote:

> If you're not familiar with the include pattern, is a method for
> doing transclusion within a webpage. It was invented to deal with
> several use-cases where existing microformats specifications would
> required that a piece of data be repeated multiple times on a page,
> despite this being human/author unfriendly.  Read the wiki page
> [http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern] for more info.
> Anyway, there's been some discussion on the microformats-dev list,
> which raised an issue with this pattern. The issue is this: does the
> inclusion include only the children of the referenced element, or the
> referenced element itself?
> If we take referenced elements and their children, you can do
> something like this:
> <span class="fn" id="a">Ryan King</span>
> <span class="vcard><object class="include" data="#a" type="text/
> html" /></span>
> If we only take children, then the above would have to become.
> <span id="a"><span class="fn">Ryan King</span></span>
> <span class="vcard><object class="include" data="#a" type="text/
> html" /></span>
> Of course, the issue is a bit more complex than this, as it can
> create a bit more complexity for parsers to deal with.
> DanC's summarized the discussion over on mf-dev in this email [http://
> microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-dev/2006-May/000097.html].
> I think I know where the people in the mf-dev conversation think
> about this (Dan, Tantek, Brian and myself) , but I'd like to open
> this discussion up to more people, as it was the potential to impact
> publishers.
> thanks,
> ryan
> --
> Ryan King
> ryan at technorati.com
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