[uf-discuss] citation microformat?

Edward Vielmetti edward.vielmetti at gmail.com
Wed Jan 18 19:43:49 PST 2006

well, the examples I'm starting to unearth - and
there are more of them coming out of the library
standards field - all are using Dublin Core based

If I get it right, then it's really not "title", it's "dc.title"
that we're working with.  & that is unambiguous
and a bunch of tools produce it and understand it.


On 1/18/06, Tim White <tjameswhite at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've been (slowly) working on the bibliographic citation format for a
> while now. Brian Suda and I had a lengthy discussion a while back, and
> Edward V. and I have had some preliminary discussions.
> --- Tantek �elik <tantek at cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > In addition, as way of "moving forward", it would be great to see
> > some
> > analysis of the implied schemas illustrated by the examples in the
> > current
> > cite-examples page:
> >
> >  http://microformats.org/wiki/cite-examples
> After I added those examples to the wiki, I did a quick analysis[1] --
> in a nutshell patterns for titles include:
> * id="title" class="producttitle"
> * class="title"
> * id="lblTitle" class="book_headline block"
> * table cell, no mark up
> * h1
> * h2
> I also posted my thoughts on starting NOT with a full bibliographic
> microformat, since that tends to get overly complicated quickly, but
> rather to start with a title design pattern. My thoughts were lengthy,
> so instead of sending them to the list[2], I linked to them on my
> blog[3]. Perhaps that resulted in less discussion.
> At any rate, my concern now is with the title issue. I see that under
> hAtom it was determined that class="title" couldn't be reused because
> it was already in use by hCard.
> While I understand the idea behind not reusing names, this practice
> seems to have 2 problems: 1) long-term complexity, 2) runs counter to
> microformats principles.
> Keeping things simple by not reusing names has its merit. However, as
> we build more microformats I think we run the risk of needing to invent
> non-intuitive class names because the most appropriate one is already
> taken. It looks like class="title" for hAtom was solvable by using an
> alternate name, but now that is taken away from the next format.
> As for the principles, we are suppose to "pave the cowpaths". The few
> examples I've placed in the wiki break out to about 60/40 that use
> "title" (or some derivative) to refer to a book title. Furthermore,
> look at virtually any card catalog, amazon.com or other book service
> and you will find search criteria for "title". Also, look at the work
> Edward has done for the Ann Arbor District Library XML feed.[4]
> I would say that this path is pretty well worn. (And yes, I admit this
> blinds/biases me a bit to seeing alternatives, but I'm trying to be
> open to reasonable suggestions.)
> As for any confusion re-used names may cause parsers/application, I
> think that is secondary to easy of use by people. At least when I think
> about People First, Machines Second, I think in terms not only of human
> readable, but also easy-of-use by people. Computers are here to do the
> complicated bits for us and should be able to figure out if they are
> reading an hCard or a bibliographic citation. (Easy for me to say since
> I don't write apps.)
> I hope all this makes sense -- it's getting late and I feel like I'm
> rambling. At any rate, I hope we can have some good, productive
> discussions about a bibliographic format and get this thing moving.
> -Tim White
> tjameswhite.com/blog
> [1]
> http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-December/002519.html
> [2]
> http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-December/002447.html
> [3]
> http://www.tjameswhite.com/blog/archives/2005/12/microformat-design-pattern/
> [4] http://microformats.org/wiki/cite-formats
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Edward Vielmetti in Ann Arbor, MI 48104
+1 734 276 5910

edward.vielmetti at gmail.com

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