[uf-discuss] hThing microformat ... or design pattern

[James Darling]

I think to a certain extent, just marking an item as an item could be  
quite powerful, enabling you to easily see that this is a thing, it  
is owned by this hcard, it is for sale at this price and these are  
several reviews of it. These are the thoughts that tempt me. Although  
I'm still torn.

James

On 16 Nov 2006, at 16:36, David Janes wrote:

> I certainly appreciate the #2 concern and I'll have a look at what
> they did in #1. My thought is not to universally capture all
> attributibutes of thingyness, but rather a few key concepts that are
> more or less already in use, particularly in microformats (i.e. fn,
> photo, url; also adr and geo).
>
> This is why in my original post of this subject I mentioned this might
> just be a design pattern (which it seems certainly to be) that things
> like hWine would be built upon. However, having it as an explicit
> microformat may lead to better reuse of concepts as "niche"
> microformats are built.
>
> Regards, etc...
>
> On 11/16/06, Brian Suda <brian.suda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I would voice a few worries...
>>
>> 1) Dublin Core spent YEARS looking at metadata about 'things' and  
>> they
>> narrowed things down to a handful of properties. It has been
>> brought-up before to possibly model DC terms.
>>
>> 2) when you look for 'real-world' examples you will find "things"
>> everywhere. There are no shortage of "things"/"items" on the  
>> internet,
>> and while it would be great to model them, it is almost back to the
>> "boiling the oceans" senario. I'd suggest a more narrow topic than
>> "things" or "items" - otherwise i'd bet you'd spent alot more than
>> "tens of hours" on the project.
>>
>> -brian
>>
>> On 11/16/06, David Janes <davidjanes at blogmatrix.com> wrote:
>> > Any takers? I'm willing to start putting together an -examples and
>> > -brainstorming page, but I don't want to invest tens of hours in  
>> the
>> > project if people think it's semi-stupid or "we consider that  
>> but then
>> > we figured out it was a bad idea".
>> >
>> > hItem is probably a better name indeed.
>> >
>> > Regards, etc...
>> > David
>> >
>> > On 11/14/06, James Darling <james at abscond.org> wrote:
>> > > I have been having such thoughts, although I had hItem in my  
>> mind.
>> > > I pretty much had the same justifications in my head as David has
>> > > laid out. I was also thinking I wasn't sure much more base was
>> > > covered by this then hListing and hReview, as selling and  
>> reviewing
>> > > are, from what I can think of right now, are the only two things
>> > > you'd do with an item description on the internet.
>> > > On the other hand, it does seem nice in my head to mark  
>> something as
>> > > an item first, and then add reviews or prices or hcards onto that
>> > > item, linking them together. But maybe it's just a weird desire
>> > > rather than an actually helpful thing.
>> > > So this is basically saying I've had the same kind of  
>> thoughts, but I
>> > > personally hadn't come to a conclusion about it.
>> > > What are other's thoughts? (I have googled, but I would not be
>> > > surprised to be told this has all been discussed before, in which
>> > > case, any links to a justification against?)
>> > >
>> > > James
>> > >
>> > > On 14 Nov 2006, at 13:27, David Janes wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I'd like to broach the topic of a "thing" microformat (or  
>> design
>> > > > pattern). I don't believe this is a "boiling the ocean" type  
>> of topic
>> > > > and I'll outline what I've been thinking about and how it  
>> would be
>> > > > used
>> > > >
>> > > > (1) This would be a simple container "hthing" with all the  
>> elements
>> > > > from vCard that would make sense -- fn, url and photo in  
>> particular;
>> > > > geo and adr also for things that are in a particular place.  
>> I.e. this
>> > > > proposal is fully based on hCard
>> > > >
>> > > > (2) This would be the basis for future "thing" microformats.  
>> For
>> > > > example, this morning a "wine" microformat was proposed. If  
>> there was
>> > > > a hThing microformat, there would be a solid basis for just  
>> extending
>> > > > that with information specific to the wine world; likewise,  
>> one could
>> > > > see this being of great use for making car microformats or  
>> housing
>> > > > microformats that would be used with hListing [1].
>> > > >
>> > > > (3) This would fit nicely into existing microformats and may  
>> even be
>> > > > an improvement. For example, in hReview [2] there's an explicit
>> > > > container for the people and places being reviewed, but not for
>> > > > things. By having such a container, we ensure that  
>> attributes of the
>> > > > thing being reviewed associate with the thing rather than  
>> the review
>> > > > (that is, a car being reviewed has 4-wheel drive, not the  
>> review has 4
>> > > > wheel drive; although this is obvious to us it may not be  
>> obvious to a
>> > > > machine reader)
>> > > >
>> > > > (4) This may just be a design pattern -- that is, a template  
>> for
>> > > > create new microformats in the future. We do see this  
>> pattern in use
>> > > > in several places, including the microformats mentioned above.
>> > > > However, I would argue that there's a real benefit for today's
>> > > > parser's knowing there's a thing there, if if future  
>> progress means
>> > > > the parser doesn't know what all the attributes are (just  
>> the  most
>> > > > important ones)
>> > > >
>> > > > (5) If it is a microformat, how we identify the type of  
>> thing is an
>> > > > open question -- we could do it like phone number types in  
>> hCard or it
>> > > > could be a new class element (or both). The type option is nice
>> > > > because it means we can cover a lot of ground without  
>> creating new
>> > > > microformats.
>> > > >
>> > > > (6) There's obviously lots of things that could be added to  
>> a hThing
>> > > > microformat that are reusable across many types of things (just
>> > > > sketching here):
>> > > >
>> > > > <span class="hthing">
>> > > > <span class="fn">
>> > > > <span class="company">Rosemount Estates</a>
>> > > > <span class="product">Diamond Label</a>
>> > > > <span class="generic">Cabernet Sauvignon</a>
>> > > > (<span class="type">wine</span>)
>> > > > </span>
>> > > > </span>
>> > > >
>> > > > <span class="hthing">
>> > > > <span class="fn">
>> > > > <span class="company">Mazda</a>
>> > > > <span class="product">Tribute</a>
>> > > > <span class="generic">SUV</a>
>> > > > (<span class="type">automobile</span>)
>> > > > </span>
>> > > > </span>
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards, etc...
>> > > > David
>> > > >
>> > > > [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting
>> > > > [2] http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview
>> > > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
>> > >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > David Janes
>> > Founder, BlogMatrix
>> > http://www.blogmatrix.com
>> > http://www.onamine.com
>> > http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com
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>> > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> brian suda
>> http://suda.co.uk
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>
>
> -- 
> David Janes
> Founder, BlogMatrix
> http://www.blogmatrix.com
> http://www.onamine.com
> http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com
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