[uf-new] title vs. summary (was: Third attempt at hAudio)

Martin McEvoy martin at weborganics.co.uk
Fri Jun 8 13:45:49 PDT 2007

On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 13:31 -0400, Manu Sporny wrote:
> Martin McEvoy wrote:
> > You know guys we DID have a discussion about the use of "title" in
> > haudio I brought it up when I was trying to conceptualize what haudio
> > would be...
> > 
> > http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-May/000385.html
> > 
> > ... now for some reason my concept was shouted down particularly by Manu
> > and You (Scott), so I didn't push it because I thought my logic was
> > wrong, I have spent the last two months trying to think of alternatives
> > to my concept and try and fit it into how *YOU* all see haudio. now it
> > turns out that you are all suggesting that I may have been on the right
> > track in the first place?
> I am definitely admitting that I was completely and utterly wrong about
> the previous "title" discussion. Martin, you were clearly on the right
> track back then as far as I am concerned.

on the right track yes, The trouble is I WAS wrong.

> My assumption was that the Microformats community had thought through
> the selection of 'title' for hcard. I assumed discussion was off-limits
> because I didn't understand some Microformat nuance.
> It seems like there wasn't much thought put into how defining 'title' in
> the way that it was would affect other Microformats (that didn't exist
> yet). I am not trying to blame anybody for this. I probably would have
> made the same mistake. I don't think this should be a discussion about
> blame.

I think at the time hCard was meant to be identical to the vCard
Standard in every way and mach the scheme defined in
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt there was no guess work or defining
or anything just well established standards

for us to use title from vCard would mean that our meaning in hAudio
would have to match the title attribute in the vCard standard. The Title
of our hAudio is not a function is it? and it is not a single text
value, if you need more reasons why title doesn't fit try here,

the only other microformat that does use Title is of course hAtom which
is also built around rfc standards http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4287 Atom

this is why we cant change hAtom to suit our needs because it is based
on already well established standards.

Summary as Brian put it is the easiest fruit to pick from the tree as
most or the established microformats  hReview, hResume, and hCalendar
already use summary to mean exactly what we want it to mean.

The discussion around re-defining the vcard title to mean what we want
it to mean may take a very long time to accomplish, and  it would have
to be via the microformat process.

how does this look 

<div class="haudio">
<span class="summary" title="Beethoven's Ninth Sympony">Beethoven's
Ninth Sympony</span>

we are using title here in the correct context

"This attribute offers advisory information about the element for which
it is set"


would this suit our purpose?


> We should decide if we have a fundamental design problem with
> Microformats. Following up in the thread Brian just posted to the
> list... "Reusing class names in multiple formats".
> -- manu
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