[uf-new] Namespace anti-pattern and hAudio TITLE

[Manu Sporny]

Walter Logeman wrote:
> I am jumping in, new here, new to microformats, looking for a solution
> to a problem, but more on that later.

Welcome to Microformat's, Walter :)

> This thread has helped me understand a few things, though I would not
> want to have endless debates about the meta-language used.

Just a small pointer - "microformats-new" is for the
design/debate/discussion for new Microformats under development. It's a
pretty harsh place to start out learning about Microformats - you can
learn a great deal from this list, but it's not meant as an introductory
discussion group. You might want to check out microformats-discuss if
you wanted to discuss the use of pre-existing Microformats in your website:

http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss/

That being said - if you could stomach the discussion about namespaces,
you should do fine on this list :)

> Do I have this right then,
> 
> within hAudio it would be possible to have "title" or "fn"?  

Well, that is what we're currently debating. The current draft
specification for hAudio uses FN, which several of us are contesting as
a bad choice. Some of us would like to use TITLE, but previously when we
had suggested that, some on this list nixed the idea because TITLE is
already used in hCard to mean "job title".

Since TITLE was defined to mean "job title" in Microformats, that
precludes us from using it for hAudio.

We're attempting to change the Microformats definition of TITLE to mean
"title" instead of "job title". It sounds like a no-brainer, but we're
making sure it doesn't have any other ramifications before doing so.

The best thing about this community is that we debate the merits and
drawbacks of an idea in an open environment before coming to a
conclusion. This helps everybody weigh in on the issues before a
decision is made.

Some also argue that this open debate is the worst part about this
community :)

> I'd prefer "title", it makes more intuitive sense to me. 

Good to know, thanks Walter - that helps us understand what would be
most intuitive to somebody starting out in Microformats. We've been
immersed in this stuff long enough that it's hard to see the forest for
the trees at times.

> Would there also be tag name for "file name"?  fn could get confusing ...

There isn't a proposal for filename at the moment, other than using the
ENCLOSURE class in @rel. Filenames, sizes, bitrates, etc. are outside of
the scope of what hAudio is attempting to address (naming audio
recordings).

>> What if the page includes profiles for hAudio *and* hCard?
> 
> I am a total newby, I just looked at my hCard thinking there would be a
> <div class="hCard">, but no it is <div class="vcard">  ???

Yes, that certainly is confusing. VCARD was used as the class name for
historical reasons - hCard is based on the VCARD format by Netscape:

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt

That is why the name of the class is VCARD instead of hCard.

> So does every microformat, regardless of the "context" need to be unique?

It depends on what you mean by "unique". If you mean, do the class names
have to be unique, then yes, they do have to be unique.

> I am hoping to mix hCard, xfn and "hArt" if it were there, I saw a start
> on it?  I will start some new threads.

Yes, you can mix hCard and xfn on the same page, and even in the same
paragraph.

-- manu